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 Arrancar Release

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PostSubject: Arrancar Release   Thu 05 Nov 2009, 11:15 pm

Just a note here, but in the Resurrecion template, there is a lack of "Ressurection ability". While this may not be a major issue, I feel it somewhat limits Arrancar to a certain extent.

Sure, Techniques are all well and good, but what about what the resurrecion actually does? For example, Starkk's res allowed him to fire Cero's from his weapon, and Barragan's res allowed him to increase the aging progress. While you could say these could be considered an "ultimate ability" - Think of how Starkk had his wolf Cero's. I believe this would be more on par with an Ultimate Ability, and not the cero firing.

Abilities such as these are what makes the res, the techniques only add upon it.

What initially bought this upon me was one of the abilities I added in my Res. While it would work amazingly well as a "Resurrecion ability" - It's not a technique, as such, and it is based on what the res is all about, increased power by using potent Holy energy while he punches. Without that, his res is worthless, and because I labeled it as a technique, it requires both a cooldown and a usage amount. - Some may believe this is fine, but what would "Kira" do if his Zanpaktou didn't double the weight of whatever it touched constantly? It would essentially destroy the weapon.

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Additionally, I believe that there is also an issue with the "Two Ultimate Abilities" for Espada. Two ultimates is a bit much, isn't it? Ultimate tends to be used for the final, most powerful attack one has in their arsenal. With two, this is no longer the case and ruins the validity of it.

Again, both these issues are bought about from my personal view. If anyone has anything to say about it, feel free to say so here, and as the announcement said, "Suggestions make the world go round". So erm, yeah, keep them coming in? ^^
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PostSubject: Re: Arrancar Release   Fri 06 Nov 2009, 1:28 am

I agree with Methias. My Sombre Espada would fit more as a Resurreccion Ability rather than an Ultimate Attack, it's essentially what my powers and element are based around rather than some massive all-out doomsday finale. A Resurreccion Ability should, more or less, focus around your powers and whatnot much like a Shikai or Bankai Ability, whereas an Ultimate should be some flashy shnazzy huge shabang deal with a battle limit (Like once, twice tops if it's a more moderate Ability/Attack), duration, and hella cooldown if it is useable more than once.
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PostSubject: Re: Arrancar Release   Fri 06 Nov 2009, 2:07 am

So, does that mean there is one or the other?

As I see, it and from what I read, you seem to say there is either one step or the other, not both.


Kira's Zan ability... is just that, its ability.

Stark firing 1000 cero's from his gun, while it may seem like a enormous attack, was more of a technique. His cero wolf, was more like a Ultimate attack

Do I need to mention Aizen or Gin?


Before we delve into the prospects and such of abilities and what they mean. I've seen a horrible, HORRIBLE HORRIBLE Pattern emerge with these things.

There are no "ultimate" anythings. Every ultimate move I've seen is pure and simply bullshit. That may be harsh, but is it. Its could be the greatest move ever, but the way it comes out is crap.

"I use my ultimate attack, banzai"
"I sense he is using a massive attack, dodge"

So... now we wait 15 posts again... it comes down to a "really" moment. I've yet to see someone take a Ultimate to the face.... But that bala you fired in your first post, meh caught them in the face... You may think me stupid like "Why would you not dodge a Ultimate Attack" well... "do you know its a ultimate attack" NO but people ALWAYS DODGE, block or use some other cheap trick. We all do it, dodge a GRC, OMG Black Coffin, DODGE.

I remember, on BO I got extremely mad *story time* and created a move, hide it, and deleted it from my profile, and sent a copy to Yuki so one person knew of it.

The move was horrible nerked, in terms of power, it was all hell sucky, slow as shit. But it had something.

"Orb of Gratitude"
"A move that comes out slightly flashy, meaning it flashes like a disco ball. Moves slowly across the battlefield, slowly enough that a step around could avoid it. If it touches anything, it makes a small pool ball size hole then puffs in a cloud of smoke. It looks much more powerful that it really is, strength wise, comparable to a seated officer's punch. Duration One post
Cooldown: 8 Posts

That was the move in almost word for word form. However, I hid its effect.

*Move disintegrates any spiritual powered things upon contact*

Much to my surprise, someone dodged the first two.... then decided to block the third with there sword, in a effort to "make themselves take a blow"
There zanpakuto disintegrated and it cause such a mess, Ekochi quit shortly there after, citing that hiding my moves so others couldn't read them was "unsportsmanlike, and god modding"


We all read people's powers or whatever, if you say you don't, its like saying you don't masturbate, its a lie and we all know it. Maybe you didn't do it today, or in the last month, but you've done it, be it when you were a noob, or when you were "skimming" them to "look" for "god modding".

My point with this crap is, Ultimate attacks are bullcrap. Ultimate Abilities are ultimate, that's there "neato" thing. Not Ultimate like "Flash bang boom" But Ultimate like, yea no other abilities can counter mine.

Such as
My Bankai can control someone's shadow
My ultimate ability allows me to control shadows
*Ultimate wins out over bankai*

My ASH ability allows me to poison what I touch
My Ultimate ability is to never be poisoned
Ultimate ability wins out.


Now if you want to get into the semantics's of abilities, feel free to do so, I just wanted to point out the obvious bullcrap that most people pull off when it comes to the "finishing" move deals.


FYI, I think I might try that again, send Fibi my tech's and abilities, and let people worry about what "moves" they "have" to get "hit" by. But I hate that term, you can't dodge forever, meaning you eventually have to take a hit... but the hit you take is obviously your choice... cause that's is how it is in any fight. "His left punches are really really strong, I'll block those... but his kick's to the shin hurt... but not as much as those left hooks, so I'll take a kick to the shin because if I have to get it, I want to get hit with weak stuff"
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PostSubject: Re: Arrancar Release   Fri 06 Nov 2009, 4:04 am

The concept of techniques or whatnot being hidden from people excluding mod's and the user themselves is somewhat of an interesting one. Do you know your opponents abilities when you go against them? You really shouldn't unless you've seen them fight before in RP. It's a use of OOC information, but it's hard to control because we all look at applications. If only because boredom and curiosity are horrible things.

On another note, I'm somewhat confused as to why the Resurreccion have Ultimate Attacks to begin with... It seems a general ability is more in context with the whole structure of other race's powers. But I've never claimed any true grasp of Arrancar to begin with, they confuse me too much. XP
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Number of posts : 330
Registration date : 2009-03-04

Character sheet
Name: Shishigami Jubei
Race: Arrancar.
Ranking: Decima/Cero Espada.

PostSubject: Re: Arrancar Release   Fri 06 Nov 2009, 5:20 pm

Ultimate is just a name, we do not have any ultimate whatever, super massive ultimate finishing attacks and what not. You are supposed to treat the ultimate abilities as your released one, as that is what they are, for all purposes. What we have here is, just a name change, nothing more, and nothing less. I see no need, to add a whole other thing into the template, and change names. Now, give me a good reason as to "why" I should, and I will do so. But, when the ultimate is, just the released ability, there is no need to do so. See my point? I agree with you on that, though, Galihan, as I have seen it as well. Dodging the more dangerous attack while avoiding the lesser one, but! How do they know which is which? How do they know how powerful an attack really is, when they have never seen you fight? Simple, read your application, use that information, and somehow, someway their character magically knows it as well. In short, metagaming.

_________________
Pre-Release:
Cero User
Weak Hierro
Sonido User
Strongest Resureccion

Post Release:
Cero Master
Strongest Hierro
Sonido Master (Varies on your transformation)
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PostSubject: Re: Arrancar Release   Fri 06 Nov 2009, 5:46 pm

Well, usually the strength of the attack is obvious. Cero Oscuras? Yeah, pretty blatant. Ryuushintenraiho or whatever the fuck that bigass Kido was, same. If it packs a large punch or a large explosion, there's going to be a lot of energy pouring out of the attack. Sort of a giveaway.

But y'all are getting a little carried a way. Whether or not they know it's strong is irrelevant, usually the objective of a fight is to minimize your intake of damage whilst maximizing the output. Of course, the way it's dodged should still be logical and reasonable.

I remember while fighting Hiruma on BU, Jaden was asking the CB to vote whether or note I should take a hit, seeing as he'd made quite a few attempts to land one. I found this incredibly ridiculous. The rule is "There are no fights without damage", but if your opponent's just randomly slashing and not putting much effort, description, or thought into it; I'm gonna dodge. Realistically, even if they do all the aforementioned, I'm going to try and dodge or defend.

Random thoughts strewn together into one post. I claim victory through creativity and skill, not supermassivedoomattacks. But I believe this whole thread was started on account of the fact that in the sheet it says "Ultimate Ability/Attack", which leaves it open-ended for such. And, if you compare some Abilities/Attacks to others, some will seem more like doomsday-ish attacks, others will seem on a Shika/Bankai/Released Ability level. Sorry if that made no sense and it's difficult to differentiate what the fuck I just meant. I have not slept.
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PostSubject: Re: Arrancar Release   Fri 06 Nov 2009, 9:27 pm

I don't think all "attacks" give you the chance to " instantly" know the power behind it. Uryu said Ulq's reiatsu was like a ocean, drowning out everything around him. In context, if he fired something, it would have been a ripped coursing through a ocean, you most likely would have never sensed the effects.


But I think, the problem stems from the whole "I'm smarter than you" complex. Skeaith gave a perfect example, if your flailing around like a moron, obviously you won't get a decent hit. However, that's not always the case. Some of us forget the basic's, or claim we already know them.

D&D has a term for it, called the "charm wall" meaning just because what is said, it goes through a charm wall, to come out all "Shakespearean".

Okay, he is flailing around like an idiot, now apply charm wall.

This guy has been fighting for as long as I have, even longer with a sword, as shinigami get an advantage of swordplay, cause well they always have them, where espada have only had them in this stage of there life. So, I have to know that he is going to be good at it, otherwise he would be dead a long time ago.

Realistically, you don't know when the supermassivedoom attack is, or will be coming, should you know by some bullshit reiatsu sense, I knight you sir "WTFYOUR REIATSU SENSE BITCH" and claim it should hit. Because like in a IRL fight, you try and minimize damage, but you don't know if your opponent is planning on swinging a hard punch, or if he has that shotgun hidden in the backseat of his car.

Trying to rationalize the whole "Minimize damage" aspect is an excuse to say "I can take weak hits" and not strong ones, because I'm awesome like that.

Need I remind you... Ichigo with his amazing reiatsu sense, get hit with Cero Oscuras, Urahara got hit with a bala. Not because Urahara is sucky, or Ichigo is stupid, but because its about surprise. Which why, I'm moving for a private technique board. So, it puts more guessing into the fight, rather than "Okay dodge this one, and this one, but not that one, because next turn he gets his GRC back, and I need to save a dodge for that, cause that will kerpawn me in a instant, so save dodge"

BTW: As a general rule of thumb, for myself personally. I let the other person dodge first, and always take the lead. Most of my char's are the black's to chess's white. Choosing to go second, so after my opponent dodges me 15 times, and I'm on seven, I know that I can't be called out on god modding, or bunny. Its a real cheap trick to use, especially when I can randomly flail about, letting my opponent dodge numerous attacks that are poorly planned, thus when s/he puts effort into there post I say "You dodged me 8 times, and now I dodge you 8 times" Carefully worded traps be damned, for every dodge my opponent takes, I chalk up one for myself as well, it makes me feel like I at least am even with him.
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